Alrighty. Time to put my 2c into the SWBF2 EA discussion.
But first let's revise SWBF EA:
SWBF EA was a really bad sinkhole of a pretty but empty little house. It had little content, paid DLC divided up the community, and no server browser. And since the existing modes and maps themselves were small in scale, and often linear, on rails with sequential objectives. causing minimal replayability for most people. The loadout system, as opposed to a class system, made the battles very nonsensically chaotic. With little to no opportunity to play the game in a tactical or strategic manner, since you can't tell who has what in a quick manner. The lack of insightful map design, instead persisting to a conglomerate of rocks and landscapes, aided to the lack of tactical thinking in that you couldn't tell which direction you should best take to meet your objective, (this is inherently not much of an issue in urban based maps). The air battles held little value in that all you do is auto-aim every ship with unique ships just requiring you to shoot at it more, the flight mechanics made you crash into the ground all the time, making the aiding of ground forces painfully difficult, how it's hard to target ground forces doesn't help either.
Now let's revise SWBF (series) from Pandemic:
SWBF (originals) were an inspiration of Battlefield 1942's concept, exploring what would it be like for Star Wars to have large scale battles between two factions with a variety of assets. Fundamentally. It is similar to the Battlefield games because of what I described as well as it having a class system. But then Pandemic decided to use their limited time to change it up a little, allowing for unique environments and vehicles to persist, special unique classes for each faction, Galactic Conquest, as well as large scale space battles in SWBF2.
SWBF1 and SWBF2 had many strengths, in that while the maps and player counts were large in scale, you never felt truly lost in them because each camera angle of the map is unique and recognisable. There are minimal objectives but the game gives you many ways to achieve them. For example to win a space battle, you must gain 300 points, either through dog-fighting, crippling capital ships, or boarding them to sabotage their systems. Or in the case of land battles, hijacking enemy vehicles and shooting them from behind, taking their rear command points to put them in a two front battle, shove STARPs inside buildings to mow down infantry. There are many things to do in the original SWBF games.
Now, what does SWBF2 EA have to offer so far?:
This new instalment is an improvement to the first SWBF EA. DLC is now free so the community shouldn't be divided up anymore. There is now a class system with a variety of weapons and abilities for each class. The prequal era was finally added into the game, and they basically perfected the ship combat, since ships can now aim their cannons around a radius on the screen without turning the ship, as well as the ability to slow down. This eliminated the painful occurrences of crashing into the ground or being unable to make much contribution to the battlefield or objectives. They also scrapped the random coin system with something of more player choice, where you rack up in-round points that can be spent in spawning as a special unit. This is a better mechanic since it allows for player choice, rather then definitive chance. There are also squads, which may aid in coordination. At least when it comes to the Naboo map, I do think that design is decent in remembering where your at and what path to take instinctively, though it is easy to accomplish this in urban settings, we have yet to see what they do in natural environments.
However, currently there are little counters against air units from the ground, so AATs are basically unsustainable, heck I think they need more health. The weapons on both side's basic classes are inter-changeable, to the point where some clones even just shoot red or carry the same default weapons as the droids. I'm ok for basic classes being similar but I'd like both sides to hold the correct functioning weapons for their faction. Also for some reason, they went through efforts to restrict the vehicles to be controlled only by one player. In the past, the AAT was controlled by a driver and a main gunner, now you have to deploy the AAT in siege mode to use the main gun, like the Bio-Cannons in SW Galactic Battlegrounds. It's just not realistic and authentic at all. Planetside 2 had a similar system in that you spawn vehicles by spending Nanites (a regenerating resource) but they allowed for other players to take the role the vehicle's other functions.
A smaller but significant nitpick is that the AAT functions very restrictively compared to SWBF1 and SWBF2's AAT. In the older games, the tanks move like literal hover tanks, swaying side to side, up or down, like the tank's on some partial ice-rink. This gave the tank not only realistic and unique movement, but it made the manoeuvrability of these tanks have tactical practicality, in that there is an increased chance of a rocket or main gun missing it's shot on a skilled tank driver. Pandemic's video game engine is something to be quite impressed about if you ask me. If only they had the chance to modernise it.
Unfortunately, the worst still persists. The maps are still small-scale in size and player count, also being linear, containing sequential objectives, making replayability difficult. I've already gotten bored at watching the same thing happen again. The droids protect the MTT up until it destroys the Naboo palace barricades. The droids then seize control of the atrium unlocking the palace room, in which either the droids take control of that, or the clones deplete their reinforcements count. Oh and the MTT is on rails. I have also heard no news on this game having a server browser.
Other personal points on SWBF2 EA:
As you all know, my favourite faction is the CIS. Mostly because of their story concept as well as the design of the Confederacy's military assets (droids, vehicles and ships alike). Though TCW have butchered them in everyway to be pathetic, through making the OOM-series and B1-series Battle Droids sound and act like incompetent clowns, and evil by making almost every CIS military member in the CIS villains. They also almost never called them the CIS or Confederacy to appease the parents approval of the show, since "Confederation" is a trigger word now due to some sensitivity of American history, long gone an irrelevant.
The droid army have a dramatically raised pitch to remove any intimidation from them, often accompanied with voice lines being anything but a battle droid would say. But it's not just the voices that are terrible. They have no form of intellect what-so-ever, often just walking slowly in a straight line waiting to be shot. They barely inflict any damage against the Republic on screen compared to their losses. Heck they are even acknowledged by their own super tactical droid in Star Wars Rebels that they are highly inaccurate. The OOM-series and B1s are never depicted in having any variation in weapon arsenal as well (other then the occasional grenade). The main reason of creating the sniper droideka in TCW to me is to show that B1s can't operate a sniper rifle, reinforced in that SWR episode mentioned above.
I'd say over half of this was changed both inherently and intentionally in SWBF2 EA. Inherently since it is a multiplayer game, the droids now have to run, take cover, and shoot accurately and tactically. As a result, seeing them kill clones left and right, was quite a beautiful sight. When it comes to 'intentionally,' the clones look pitiful compared to the droids in a contest of detail. The clones are all shiny and bland while the droids look like they've gone through hell and back. This is especially evident in the intros of both factions in the map. They also have a surprising arsenal of weaponry, from gatling guns, grenade launchers, sniper rifles and pistols.
On the clones side, there is literally nothing but a few moving gunships. On the droid side, there is an entire setting of detail, from droids escorting and guarding clone prisoners, to the MTT deploying a row of battle droids. And considering the marketing campaign EA have, and how a few employees are known to be quite the fan of the droids from twitter and conferences, I have to say that the droids are pretty much the stars of the game reveal at the moment.
To bad DICE's droid fans are of a different kind. I was a fan of the original droid depiction, being an intimidating force with robotic personalities, but unfortunately, DICE is more akin to TCW's depiction of droids and thus, the clown voices the droids have are preserved. This was not suprising, it is well known that Episode III's and TCW's battle droids' voices are taken as an icon of their existence in new Star Wars canon from both the official creators and Star Wars fans alike. Though I honestly thought the droids would come out way worse, with clones beating the crap out of slapped together droid assets in every commercial and cinematic, but apparently not. They are detailed and kicking ass, surprisingly.
I wish the droids would sound cool again, and I'm disappointed that they are still not, but almost all my other issues with the droid army have kinda eroded in this depiction of them, so since most of my standards of the droid army are ticked, I feel somewhat satisfied with the improvement. I think what still mind boggles me is why they still don't call the CIS, the 'CIS' or 'Confederacy.' Why is DICE restrained to 'Separatist Alliance'? Maybe Disney, or EA and DICE themselves have some political correctness issues of their own sadly.
Despite this improvement, and my satisfaction. I will still declare that this is not enough, I want them to be what they were in the past again. Cooler voices, correct labels, and no dodging the elephant in the room that is how the CIS came to be and why they fight.
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@corshy1 It just seems like they went with the most annoying possible voice they could create. And to just stick with it after all these years when it makes no sense in-universe has gotten very old. Especially when the previous way of each droid having their own unique voice was much more interesting and fun to listen to.
I do want to know what's up with the droid heavy class. The regular B1 seems to be the assault and the security battle droid is the specialist and the command battle droid is the officer class. Poor pilot battle droid is left out. But the heavy is just an odd colored B1. This would have been a good class to utilize the marine battle droid from Pandemic's Battlefront II (bonus since they did wield rocket launchers) or the heavy battle droid from Galactic Battlegrounds. I like the idea of tying things together and seeing obscure units more often in order to form a more cohesive Star Wars universe.
About 2 years ago, I'd have read all that... so I like it anyway...
I... actually can see this happening. Remember, I always considered the Jedi as a degenerated order, incapable of understanding a proper moral compass as well as incapable of common sense, and identifying the wrongs of themselves and their own allies (the cataylist of the Clone War). Because of their lack of proper education, their ways of thinking are often convoluted and narrow. I wouldn't be surprised if they teached their young that there is only light and dark, and nothing else. Barris reminds me of those group of students in The Witcher 3 that were very anti-religious but had the most weirdest and violent outlook around it. It's like they are so neo-atheist that they act like it's a religion itself. (Like the Jedi, the minds of medieval times aren't the most stable and precise). I wouldn't use Barris though, rather create another Jedi character with a 'patriotic' personality, that after witnessing the wrongs of the Jedi and Republic, think that if the light fails, then the dark is the only other option.
Hey guys, can we all remain cautious about SWBF2 EA. I'm glad that they added Clone Wars as well, but SWBF EA had a lot more problems then just lacking a campaign and eras. The fundamental gameplay design discouraged coordination and tactics in combat (since they use loadouts instead of classes, thus you have to run blind at enemies since you don't know their weaponry until they test it on you). Ship to ship battles were bear bones, they lacked a variety of ground vehicles, and the maps are extremely linear as if it was an Overwatch game.
I'm open to them improving, but we need to see before we judge and buy.
For all we know, they made add the eras but input as minimal variety as possible, and that is a possibility considering the image I've seen only contains Venators and Providence-class destroyers. No Acclamators, no Munificent frigates, No Recusant-class light destroyers, no Lucrehulks, etc.
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As great as that sounds, it seems highly unlikely, unless DICE does an 'EA taboo' and allows mod support. But alas, to EA (and properly DICE at this point) eliminating replayability is their priority, to maintain their excuse to shovel out sequels every year or two.
Another excuse I think EA and DICE would hold onto is that 'it's asking for too much' (But they are almost a trillion dollar company so I don't understand how they couldn't fund it).
@corshy1 I don't think that it's asking for too much at all. Both KOTORs consistently rank at the top of the pile of quality Star Wars games. The era has a lot of recognition for not ever being in the movies. And we'll never get it if we don't talk about it. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. KOTOR III is a pipe dream but I thought that era being included in Battlefront or a similar type of game would be a good compromise. TOR tried to cram in as much KOTOR as it could. I think just putting those eras into Battlefront would be best. If you're gonna dream, dream big. But I don't expect anything.
You know, what aggravates me about the prequel haters is their argument about how 'politics ruined Star Wars.' Even though there was plenty in the original trilogy:
Because of this, TFA forcibly ripped the politics, and the context, away from the movie, resulting in little value between the wiped out Republic and First Order.
The real problem was that the politics were presented in a convoluted way, not because fictional politics are bad. If they summed it up saying 'The Trade Federation, in protest of over-taxation of their corporation, blockaded a high source of resources. They launched an invasion to occupy the planet so that the can keep up the protest and continue business.' [I don't see how the treaty fits in any of this] Then I think more people would of found it intriguing then boring. Still I don't think they should be shouting for fictional politics to be hanged.
As for if the prequal politics talk made sense? I don't know, I didn't grab every detail except the main ideas (which I found well done).
I really hope Star Wars modders actually do great shit with this game (without EA bullying them).
I want to fly around as a Marine Droid just firing rockets at passing ships.
Imperial breakfast. (Link has HD image).
The CIS fanbase are small and isolated from each other compared to giants like the Republic and Imperial fanbases. It would be fun to unite as many CIS fans as possible to just appreciate or analyse concept of the CIS, discuss Star Wars, other things, etc.
I don't see TIE Pilot cockpits falling apart after sustaining enemy fire, and the TIE pilots screaming in response. I don't hear loud stormtrooper screams as their chopped or shot. Where is the detail when imperials die? Heck, I heard more detail from the droid army deaths in TCW then in Rebels.
Also, there seems to be a lot more clone death then I expected. I know technically far more droids were chopped to pieces or shot then clones (since they're often in their writer's stupid phase), but at least they weren't light when instigating clone casualties.
While I still don't like the Force Awakens. This deleted scene is f**king great.
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@corshy1 The reason for Unkar Plutt being there is easy. It was already stated in the movie that the Millennium Falcon was a 'dirty' ship. That's how Han Solo tracked it and originally picked it up. That's the supposed reason why they went to Takodana, to get on a clean ship to get BB-8 to the Resistance base so the First Order couldn't track them the rest of the way (but then the Falcon goes to D'Qar anyway so oops). It's easy to imagine Unkar Plutt getting a friend to give him a ride or hiring a ride to go out after Rey to get his ship back.
But that just brings up another issue. If the Millennium Falcon is a 'dirty' ship that anyone can track, why did Rey use it to go to Luke on Ahch-To? Would the First Order not be immediately able to track them down and finally reach Luke Skywalker? Was the Falcon cleaned up while they were at the Resistance base? Doesn't seem like it since they used it to go to Starkiller Base and then off to Ahch-To as fast as they could. Didn't seem like there was enough time, especially if you measure it considering Rey was captured and freed herself on Starkiller Base yet Finn and his group make it there to get her while she is still roaming around on the base.
You know, I complain a lot about how the CIS military and Clone army were so black and white. And as a droid fan, it did alienate me from canon. But I wondered why I kept watching and still enjoying TCW, especially when comparing it to Rebels (since it lacks cinematography, detail and scale).
This kinda answers my question.
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If you listen to their stated problem with the Legends story regarding Grievous, you can clearly tell they either skimmed over the material without actually reading it, or, simply didn't understand it because it was too complex of storytelling than what they're used to. Either that, or they're just dismissive of it. Perhaps if they spent less time jutting out Kit Fisto's jaw because they thought he needed to look more dashing and heroic as Kit Fisto should be. Talk about shallow. Okay, that's not fair as some people's jobs are character design but it's indicative of what was ultimately wrong with TCW as a whole.
I can't wait for @Timewatch to redeem Grievous' character.
I know he's got one of the chips that makes him angrier removed, thus he's more clear headed. But I hope we still see him sometimes become the enigma of death and hatred at specific fitting times. (Like how the Banking Clan bombed his shuttle, or an enemy Jedi's excuse for supporting the Huk if he ever asks).
"What are you talking about, your race is the most violent and barbaric on your planet. For the sake of peace, you'd be better starving then living."
His towering form, his raised arms, lowered. The Jedi thought he broke his pride or spirit at first but it seemed too sudden and out of his class to seem so. But he smiled on the prospect that he wiped his intimidating stance off his body.
To grievous, he was smiling at his faint memories of all the breathing bodies on the ground.
"You need to cease breathing." He said in a surprisingly smoother, quieter voice. Before zooming to bounce the Jedi lightsaber off of his two upper sabers, as his two lower swords of condensed burning energy severed the Jedi's upper legs.
"This feeling... It's been so long since I felt this. Was all that aggression in my new life so empty... Because I've never felt so determined to tear someone's flesh from flesh!"
The Jedi's false viewpoint was inspired by how the Krogen acted in Mass Effect 2. They'd properly think of the same with the Krogen, but the difference here is that the Senate made them think the Kaleesh was Krogen like.
You know. It's hard to find modern war military anime with no mecha, and when I do find one, it's usually doesn't have that much depth. (I'm looking at you Valkryrie Chronicles the anime, with it's one-shot one-kill tanks, lack of variety, and boring display of strategies, barely scratching the surface of your gaming father).
But that anime was fun though. I mean yeah it's technically not classified as tank warfare, but a sport called Tankery, but it has more depth in variety, strategy and tactics then in most war anime I have seen. I had an endless amount of fun with this show, and I god damn hope other shows look at it as inspiration on how to execute tactical and strategic warfare well.
All I'm looking for now is an animated show that's basically OOM-9's Revenge but on a separate universe. I want in-depth warfare on a large scale, not one or the other. (Basically only Code Geass can fulfil that quota, but it does resort to OP mechs to render strategy useless sometimes).
Oh and no exposition dumps explaining a plan before doing a plan (sometimes it's justified). It makes the follow-up sequences boring and predictable. Just showing us the plan in action is more fun. (Again, I'm looking at you Valkyrie Chronicles, the anime).
The 'EliteMasterLordofAll' has uploaded once again.
She may have developed a minor attachment to the Rebellion later into the movie, but still maintains some major problems with it (like how elements of it killed her father, and being very bureaucratic as if it were the Galactic Senate), but she may have sympathised with their main goal as her father did. Maybe she agrees with their purpose then the organisation itself.